Warhammer 3rd Edition

Subject:         Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Correction, plus _accurate_ new 3rd edition info... was: [Re: 3rd Edition -> More        Info...]]]
   Date:         Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:54:46 -0700 (PDT)
   From:        Harry Truman <bahamut_fzero@yahoo.com>
     To:         Conrad Hubbard <totem@earthlink.net>

I'm sorry, but I relly don't have the time to write a full review.
Feel free, however, to use any of the information contained in my
posts. It is all totally accurate.

---Conrad Hubbard <totem@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Do you actually already have an edition of the 3rd edition Warhammer
> 40K? > I have attached your posting.  totem would be interested in
posting > a review of the game, if you were interested in writing one.
> We are a nonprofit organization, so it would not be a paid venture,
but > if you are interested in getting additional coverage, please write
back. 
> 
> --
> Conrad Hubbard
> 
> Editor of Foray (The Roleplaying Journal)
> A dynamic online magazine supporting roleplaying games of grim beauty
> Gaming Articles, New Reviews, Classifieds (For Sale, Wanted, Notices)
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7803/
> 
> Creator of PATHOS (A Collection of Poetry and Oddities)
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/1987/
> 
> 
> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 
>> ATTACHMENT part 2.2 message/rfc822 
>
> >Ichigoki (bahamut_fzero@yahoo.com) wrote:
> >: >>I've seen rumors, but I still bet I'm right that template sizes
will be > >: >>change. You know, so you can't use your old flamer, 2", and 3"
templates > >: >>anymore.
> >
> >: The new flamer template is exactly the same as the old one, and
none of > >: the other sizes have changed, either. Do you feel better now?
> > > >I will when I have the damned things in my hand - not a moment
before.
> 
> >I HAVE had them in MY hand. I have seen the contents of the box many
> >times. They are exactly the same size and shape as the old ones,
only made  > >of transparent orange plastic, with raised 'fire' patterns on them.
>  > Ooops. The above info I gave was incorrect. The templates looked the
same > size, but when I measured them they are 1 1/2" and 2 1/2" in radius.
The > flamer template is the same as a normal flamer template (there doesn't
> seem to be a heavy flamer template, though...). In other words, these
> mysterious 3" and 5" templates you've been hearing about do exist, the
> number now refers to the _diameter_, not the radius like before. The
5" is > only used for ordinance weapons (vehicle mounted, move or fire,
can't fire > other weapons if fired), while the smaller template is used for
rockets, > frag grenades, etc... Only ordinance weapons can scatter (so if you
miss > with a frag missile, nothing happens).
> > Other irritating new things (and some general info)
> 
> 1. The are no to hit-modifiers anymore. 2+ is the best to-hit score
you > can get, so there is NO point having a BS higher than 5.
> > 2. All saving throws are unmodifiable, unless negated by a weapon's
AP. If > a weapon has an AP equal to or lower than your save, then it is
negated > altogether, other wise it is not modified at all, so there is no
partial > protection by armour anymore.
> 
> 3. Cover now confers a flat saving throw (from 6+ to 4+), which
cannot be > negated, instead of a to-hit modifier.
> 
> 4. No weapons do multiple damage anymore. All hits will inflict one
wound, > unless the strength of the weapon is MORE than twice the target's
> toughness, then it is killed outright (so if you have T 5 or higher,
you > are safe from this).
> 
> 5. Bikes no longer count as separate targets, and instead simply add
to > the toughness of the rider (eg: SM Bikes give +1 T, Juggernauts give
+2 T, > +2 A). The linked weapons on bikes are some of the few vehicle weapons
> that can still fire when moving at full speed.
> 
> 6. There are four types of unit: Infantry, Bikes, Cavalry, and
Vehicles. > Vehicles are sub-divided into walkers, skimmers, open-topped and
tanks. > Going into the special properties of these will take ages, so I won't
> (maybe later). > 
> 7. There are three types of terrain: normal, difficult and
impassable. Put > as simply as possible, on normal terrain all infantry move 6"
(vehicles, > cavalry, bikes 12"), difficult you throw 2D6 and pick the highest as
> movement value (vehicles 12", but get stuck for the rest of the game
on a > D6 throw of 1, same with bikes and cavalry, but they're removed as
> casualties on a throw of 1), and impassable terrain is impassable,
unless > your troops have some special ability for that type of terrain.
> 
> 8. Combat is fought whole units at a time, ala WHFB, and uses the same
> attack system, with a few modifications. All models within 2" of an
enemy > can contribute to the combat. Charging gives +1 attack, striking is
done > in strict initiative order. Slain models cannot strike back. Models in
> cover always strike first. Side which suffers the most wounds passes a
> leadership test (subject to modifiers) or falls back. Unit may
attempt to > reform (rally) later, but never on the same turn. Units below 50% of
> original numbers cannot reform.
> 
> 9. Hand to hand weapons have been ludicrously simplified. Power
weapons > double the users strength up to a max of 8, but you always strike last
> (and are character-only), close combat weapons give an extra attack
if you > have two, and there is a third type of combat weapon I can't remember
> which ignores armour saves (chainswords, I think). 
> 
> 10. There are only three phases to the turn: Movement phase, Shooting
> phase, Assault phase. It's pretty obvious what happens in these.
Rallying > is done in the assault phase. Yes, there is NO psychic phase. You
don't > even wanna know what they did to that!
>> 11. There are four types of shooting weapon: Heavy, Rapid fire,
Assault > (not the same as close-combat), and pistols (and ordinance, which are
> vehicle-only, but these are not common weapons). Pistols do count as
close > combat weapons, though. Rapid fire weapons can be shot twice at half
range > or once at full range if you haven't moved, and once at half range
if you > did. Heavy weapons are move or fire. Assault weapons can always be
fired > their full range whether you moved or not, and can be fired multiple
times > if the weapon allows it. All weapon ranges are exponents of six
> (6,12,24,48) except for very few long-ranged exceptions. Weapons
have only > four stats: range, strength, AP and type. 
> 
> 12. There are no longer any uses for sustained fire dice or artillery
> dice. Some heavy weapons can fire multiple times, (the assault cannon
> being the most, at three shots, but only if you don't move). Weapons
don't > jam anymore, but the assault cannon is destroyed if you roll a one
on all > three to-hit dice (I'm sure I could do it...). Normal template weapons
> don't scatter, they just miss with no effect, while ordinance
weapons that > miss scatter D6". (Although some require you to guess range...)
> > 13. Power armour saves on 3+ on D6.Terminator armour saves on 2+ on
1D6 > (sorry, Khorne players, this issue won't be resolved until the
release of > 'Codex: Chaos', but I doubt Khorne Terminators will save on 1+ on
1D6, as > only weapons with AP ! will be able to hurt them [ordinance
weapons]). 
> 
> 14. Armour penetration is worked by rolling a D6 and adding the
strength > of the weapon. A result equal to a vehicle's armour value rolls on the
> 'glancing blow' (6 to destroy) table, while a higher result than the
> armour value of a vehicle rolls on the 'penetrating hit' table (5+ to
> destroy), where it is more likely to damage or destroy the vehicle.
> Ordinance hits roll on a separate 'ordinance hit table', which is even
> more likely again to destroy the vehicle (4+). Some of the higher
results > can harm surrounding troops as well. Individual troops in destroyed
> vehicles have a 50% chance of sustaining a S5 hit (they may make
armour > saves as usual), unless result six on the 'ordinance hit table' is
rolled, > and then they are all killed, and anything within 6" of the vehicle
may be > hit too.
> 
> Well, that should hold you for now. I'm sure I've forgotten lots of
> important stuff.... As you can see, the whole game has been
ridiculously > and unrealistically simplified, and is obviously aimed at
ten-year-olds. 
> The only advantage I can see to the new system is that games take much
> quicker, and that larger battles can conveniently be played (and demo
> games will now be lots easier to run). Personally, I really don't like
> these rules. In fact, I can already see a second edition cult
forming...
> (Actually, that's not a bad idea. I hereby announce the official
creation > of the 40K cult of the second edition, or SEC. Anyone who prefers
second > edition rules over any other incarnation is automatically a member,
> whether they know of the cult's existence or not....) 
> 
> If you want to know more, ask questions. I may post some sample stats
> tomorrow, but this is the first time in days I've had time to post a
> decent amount of information... All info contained in this post is
> completely true, straight from the rule book (of course, the actual
> 'rules' section only goes from about page 30 to page 94, including the
> vehicle rules...)
> 
>
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> Ichigoki - Founder of the SEC...